The Honor Of God

Brian Saint-Paul speaks with Dr. Thomas Woods Jr. about isolationism, non-interventionism, the foreign policy of the Founders, and how we got where we are today.

Brian Saint-Paul: In the realm of foreign policy, what’s the difference between isolationism and non-interventionism? The terms are often used interchangeably — and incorrectly — in the current presidential race. 

Thomas E. Woods Jr.: An isolationist — if words have any meaning at all — is someone who wants to isolate the country from interaction with the rest of the world. We’re not talking simply about disengagement from foreign conflicts but also drastically reducing our trade relations around the world — and perhaps, initiating trade wars. So the real isolationist is someone who wants the military budget limited to what’s required to defend the country, but who also wants national self sufficiency and isn’t interested in diplomatic engagement. 

When you put it that way, very few people would qualify as isolationists. We should remember that the term itself wasn’t actually invented by those critical of U.S. foreign policy. The term ‘isolationist’ was actually invented by their opponents to smear them in the 1930s, and frankly, I can’t think of anybody who would take a totally isolationist view. 

So the Founders were not isolationists? 

No, they were in favor of non-interventionism, which is a different thing. 

Non-interventionism means that while we do want to isolate the country from foreign conflicts, we don’t want to roll up into a ball and sit in the corner. Non-interventionists don’t want to intervene in the internal affairs of other countries and we don’t want to get involved in wars that are none of our business. And we want to define what is our business in a reasonable, non-insane kind of way. After all, not everything in the world is our business. 

In other words, the non-interventionist wants to follow the advice of John Quincy Adams: 

Wherever the standard of freedom and independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will [America’s] heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. 

Beyond that, a non-interventionist supports international trade, cultural exchange, diplomatic contact, etc. A lot of the people who are smeared with the label ‘isolationist,’ actually hold this view. Non-interventionists say we do want to interact with the rest of the world, we just don’t want to bomb them. 

That’s a nice difference. 

It’s odd to me that the guy who doesn’t want to bomb people is considered the isolationist, while the ‘internationalist’ is the one who wants to go bombing. In the 1990s, did the Republicans become isolationists because they didn’t want to bomb Serbs who had never done anything to Americans? Were they suddenly isolationists then? 

Incidentally, a non-interventionist posture would also generally refrain from using sanctions as a weapon. Sanctions almost always hurt the target population and do not hurt the regime. In fact, the regime is usually able to exploit the sanctions and position themselves as the great anti-American martyrs, outrageously put upon by the wicked Americans. It gives them every rhetorical device they could want to pose as the great heroes of their country against the Americans and their sanctions. 

And since these regimes aren’t usually loved by their people, we may be unintentionally delaying a popular revolt by making ourselves a bigger irritant than their dictator. 

Right. Just look at Cuba. What have the sanctions against Cuba accomplished? Is Castro out of power? It’s taking about 48… 49 years, and counting. Come on. The policy has had no effect other than to allow Castro to become the great martyr who thumbs his nose at America. But since the issue is so politically sensitive, you can’t even raise this obvious point.
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